Curse

seekjy · Jan 14, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

While Autohotkey and other similar APIs for setting up keyboard/mouse macros are indeed powerful and can perform the described tasks, these are not the best choice for programming hero controls, as you lose mouse control while the commands are being issued.

Having to let go of the mouse, wait for the command to issue, and then return focus, is somewhat clumsy, and defeats the purpose of having an automated script. However, if you were planning on implementing this using a more sophisticated approach (e.g., forgoing the keyboard/mouse hooks and working directly with system calls a la C++, as you hinted), then I would be interested in seeing your implementation.

In general though, the game's innate latency between commands issued and commands followed by the heroes make an exercise like this very interesting to work with, but practically, possesses very little usefulness.

FeroxC · Jan 14, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Yea idealy if you could get it to function without moving the mouse about all over the place, it would be great.
If your going the system calls route these links might be helpfull.

Find window
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...99(VS.85).aspx
LeftButtonDown message - get this working and you might be sorted
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/lib...07(VS.85).aspx
SendMessage
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms644950.aspx

Miska Bow · Jan 15, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead

Hi all,

I would like to ask around whether you guys would be interested in a tool to control you hero skill usage. I can (in fact, for personal use I already do) write a program that processes your key presses and turn them into mouse clicks on your hero control panels. That program would basically add two features to the GW client which I feel are missing, namely controling your heroes' skills and being able to use the Shift key, Alt key, etc., to create many more hotkeys. Your feedback would be welcome.

Hmmm... Just by opening their skill bar you can do the exact same thing with your mouse.

......with no risk of ban

Roland of Gilead · Jan 15, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

I understand that. I don't think you understand your biggest mistake however. This is a forum, where people DISCUSS things. If you didn't want a discussion, you should have never posted here. The only people who CAN comment on its legality OFFICIALLY are Anet employees, and not even all of them can.

Since nobody here CAN comment OFFICIALLY, all you have is discussion. Considering many of the people who post messages here are well versed in the EULA, Anet policies, and the law, you may find some good info in such a discussion.

I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I'm not exactly sure where I made a mistake in formulating my intention. Let's start with a quote from the Forum Rules, because rules give a feeling of known ground, of security:

Quote:

4. Hijacking Threads

Thread hijacking is the act of trying to steer a web forum discussion thread off topic by discussing a subject entirely unrelated to the subject at hand.

This is an intentional act of taking the thread off at a tangent to the original subject matter at hand. The results are often provoke a feeling of resentment from the author of the original post.

Now, I can only repeat myself with my limited vocabulary: my intention for this thread was a discussion about whether or not there is an interest in the tool I described (therefore determining "the original subject matter at hand"), and I explicitely stated that I did NOT want a discussion about that tool's legality (therefore establishing what I would feel would "steer this web forum discussion thread off topic"). Your sole contributions so far were ones about the tool's legality, which "provoked a feeling of resentment" from my humble self, "the original author of the thread". Where exactly did my admittedly limited skills at the English language fail to convey my intention?

Roland of Gilead · Jan 15, 2008, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekjy

Having to let go of the mouse, wait for the command to issue, and then return focus, is somewhat clumsy, and defeats the purpose of having an automated script. However, if you were planning on implementing this using a more sophisticated approach (e.g., forgoing the keyboard/mouse hooks and working directly with system calls a la C++, as you previously hinted), then I would be interested in seeing your implementation.

I can assure you that you would lose no control of regular play. Simulating mouse clicks and key presses takes virtually no time on hardware capable of running GW. The only instance where you cannot issue a simulated mouse click is when you keep pressing a mouse button, for example while running with the LMB pressed or adjusting the camera with the RMB pressed. Other than that, my tool would not at all interfere with regular play.

Edit: I don't exactly know whether or not I'm discussing this with a Windows programming guru, but as far as I understand it, going after the keyboard hooks is about as low-level and efficient as it gets. More to the point, in Windows it's about the only way to intercept key presses for a program that does not have window focus. And when you say I should go directly for the system calls, what do you believe does the Java Virtual Machine do when I tell it to simulate a mouse click? We are talking at most about miliseconds difference between the possible approaches, which is nothing compared to the uncertainties and possible lags involved with network connection and the Hero AI.

Miska Bow · Jan 15, 2008, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead

I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I'm not exactly sure where I made a mistake in formulating my intention. Let's start with a quote from the Forum Rules, because rules give a feeling of known ground, of security:

Now, I can only repeat myself with my limited vocabulary: my intention for this thread was a discussion about whether or not there is an interest in the tool I described (therefore determining "the original subject matter at hand"), and I explicitely stated that I did NOT want a discussion about that tool's legality (therefore establishing what I would feel would "steer this web forum discussion thread off topic"). Your sole contributions so far were ones about the tool's legality, which "provoked a feeling of resentment" from my humble self, "the original author of the thread". Where exactly did my admittedly limited skills at the English language fail to convey my intention?

Oki. Not interested at all. But thx for proposing

Darkhorse · Jan 15, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

It would be quite handy actually, especially for some of the classes the AI doesn't handle so well.

I didn't know you still played this game, Roland.

Selket · Jan 15, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

lets make hero battles easier? o ok.

byteme! · Jan 15, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

HFFF made easier???

FeroxC · Jan 15, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Roland the problem with keyboard hooks is they arn't that easy to write.

They come in two types:Local and global, the local one will trap only keyboard input in your own program. The global one will trap all keyboard input but it involves writing a .dll file which is a pain.

The system call i linked you to should be able to emulate a mouse click without actually moving the mouse. But if your more comfortable with Java use that obviously.

Will be interesting to see what you use to hook the keyboard input, because in c++ its going to be a real pain.

Roland of Gilead · Jan 15, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Well FeroxC, thanks for the warning, but rest assured that I have solved the technical side of the problem already. A proof-of-concept program exists and works fine, just waiting for approval or disapproval from ANet so that it either gets fully developed or be dedicated to the Recycle Bin.

FeroxC · Jan 15, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Actually,your right i can't think of any other way to trap the keyboard input other than a global hook :P. Good luck with the approval.

Isileth · Jan 15, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Would deffinately be interested in something like this.

Hero control is fairly limited and clumsy at the moment so would be nice to have it improved in some way.

MagmaRed · Jan 15, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland of Gilead

I'm not a native English speaker, so forgive me if I'm not exactly sure where I made a mistake in formulating my intention. Let's start with a quote from the Forum Rules, because rules give a feeling of known ground, of security:

Now, I can only repeat myself with my limited vocabulary: my intention for this thread was a discussion about whether or not there is an interest in the tool I described (therefore determining "the original subject matter at hand"), and I explicitely stated that I did NOT want a discussion about that tool's legality (therefore establishing what I would feel would "steer this web forum discussion thread off topic"). Your sole contributions so far were ones about the tool's legality, which "provoked a feeling of resentment" from my humble self, "the original author of the thread". Where exactly did my admittedly limited skills at the English language fail to convey my intention?

Ok, let me make a simple statement for you then, that will be 'answering the only question you ask, and staying within the rules of YOUR post'. BTW, you don't set rules for an individual post, you can suggest, but as long as the people don't break Guru rules, yours mean nothing.

Your program sounds like it would violate the EULA, and be worthy of a ban to anyone who uses it. Because of this, I am not interested.

Does that help any?

Biostem · Jan 15, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

I just wanted to add that, at least in many cases, the tools to make things "easier" are not implemented on purpose. While heroes are a great improvement over regular henchmen, they are, for the most part, supposed to be AI controlled. yes, we have the ability to issue them specific commands, but the game is supposed to be you focusing on 1 character and the others there to simply support you, but in an automated manner.

While I can appreciate the OP's programming skills, it doesn't seem like a far cry to make automating the activation of skills, character movement, and other actions so the program plays the game for you. Again, it is fully w/in ANet's capability to offer such functions in their game, but they haven't for a reason...

Rhedd · Jan 15, 2008, 05:56 AM // 05:56

I have some actual, non-opinion-based, information on the subject of whether or not this is allowed.

Do not- repeat, DO NOT- take me what I say as official, but I've discussed this issue with Anet before, and here's what I found out.

I have an Ergodex pad, which is essentially an extremely customizable keyboard with macro capabilities (look it up, they're great!!). When I purchased it, I wrote to Anet about using macros, etc. with GW, and here's their Golden Rule:

If the third-party program you're using does NOTHING but change the way you input commands, and DOES NOT in any way allow the game to be played without you present, or without your input, or in a way that wasn't possible before, then it's fine.

In other words, the one key macro that I use all the time to select the nearest enemy and then attack it is fine, but an extensive macro that would do a dungeon run for me while I watched TV would be a big no-no.

Does that mean that Roland's program would be allowed? I'm not the one to say, but it does seem to fall within those boundaries.

It changes what button you press to have a hero use a skill (keyboard vs HUD), but in no way allows you to do something you otherwise wouldn't be able to, or presses the buttons for you while you're off eating cake, so it SHOULD be fine.

Still, talk to Anet. They're quite willing to respond to such inquiries.

Good luck with the program. It sounds quite useful.

Isileth · Jan 15, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Yeah I see it in the same light Rhedd, its not something that plays the game for you, it simply allows you to setup macros for often used command.
You still need to be there to press it and you still need to be there to make the choice on when to use it.

Unlike something that automatically refreshed enchantments or anything like that it requires your input at every step of the way.

deya · Jan 15, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

No offence lads but I smell a keylogger here.

Uber Mass · Jan 15, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

only feature i would like to see is "the not dance around in the AOE button" for the heroes.. the rest is fine as it is... dont make it a more single player mmo

Isileth · Jan 15, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by deya

No offence lads but I smell a keylogger here.

As he said he would provide the source if anyone wanted to look at it.

He also hasnt linked to anything to download at all, so hardly a keylogger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Mass

only feature i would like to see is "the not dance around in the AOE button" for the heroes.. the rest is fine as it is... dont make it a more single player mmo

1. GW isnt an mmo. Its a CORPG.

2. GW is advertised as a game you can play on your own with AI.

So saying improvements shouldnt be made because it shouldnt be a single player game isnt really valid, because it is a single player game as well as a multiplayer game.